Comments on: If they won’t recycle, make em pay! http://thegldc.com/blog/2009/06/29/if-they-wont-recycle-make-em-pay/ Greening America one blog post at a time Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:32:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Robert Stockham http://thegldc.com/blog/2009/06/29/if-they-wont-recycle-make-em-pay/#comment-5747 Robert Stockham Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:10:15 +0000 http://thegldc.com/blog/?p=745#comment-5747 Thank you for your insights. You raise some very valid points. I agree that this is not the end solution, but only the first stage. If everyone were on board, the system would become more efficient. Furthermore, the buy in by producers would be bigger. This would lead to more production in aluminum (which is quick and easy to recycle) and less in plastic bottles (which are more a more difficult item to handle). In Europe, the manufacturers of automobiles must recycle every car they produce at the end of its natural life. This concept of owning what you produce has lead to innovation in the industry and increases awareness of the end of life issue. The result is cars that made differently, with a complete avoidance of the waste stream all together. So a deposit system has its own merits. It leads to less pollution (think of collecting bottles and cans instead of scrap metal). It raises awareness (these items become a commodity, not a waste item). If all states were brought on board, there would be less fraud (while there is really very little now). As for waste spent in fossil fuels to collect and recycle, there is some problem here, but not nearly the as large as doing nothing. I moved from a state with a deposit law. The deposit system works well there. Most returnables are taken at the time of the next shopping experience, so there is little extra carbon used. Local bottlers buy back the cans and bottles, and thus take them when they make their deliveries of new product. There is little or no fraud involved here, because most neighboring states have their own deposit laws. At a nickel a can, can you imagine how much you would have to drag across state lines to make it reasonably profitable to commit this type of fraud? I have returned pick up loads of cans and believe me, it is never as much as you might think... Let me say that I agree with you on many points. I agree that this is an outdated solution, but it is a solution for now that is better than our current one of doing nothing in many regions. I agree, that I would much rather see a mandatory city wide enforced recycle program. Until we have that in every community in the state, I would say that the deposit law goes a long way to addressing the issue. Thank you for your insights. You raise some very valid points. I agree that this is not the end solution, but only the first stage. If everyone were on board, the system would become more efficient. Furthermore, the buy in by producers would be bigger. This would lead to more production in aluminum (which is quick and easy to recycle) and less in plastic bottles (which are more a more difficult item to handle). In Europe, the manufacturers of automobiles must recycle every car they produce at the end of its natural life. This concept of owning what you produce has lead to innovation in the industry and increases awareness of the end of life issue. The result is cars that made differently, with a complete avoidance of the waste stream all together. So a deposit system has its own merits. It leads to less pollution (think of collecting bottles and cans instead of scrap metal). It raises awareness (these items become a commodity, not a waste item). If all states were brought on board, there would be less fraud (while there is really very little now). As for waste spent in fossil fuels to collect and recycle, there is some problem here, but not nearly the as large as doing nothing. I moved from a state with a deposit law. The deposit system works well there. Most returnables are taken at the time of the next shopping experience, so there is little extra carbon used. Local bottlers buy back the cans and bottles, and thus take them when they make their deliveries of new product. There is little or no fraud involved here, because most neighboring states have their own deposit laws. At a nickel a can, can you imagine how much you would have to drag across state lines to make it reasonably profitable to commit this type of fraud? I have returned pick up loads of cans and believe me, it is never as much as you might think…

Let me say that I agree with you on many points. I agree that this is an outdated solution, but it is a solution for now that is better than our current one of doing nothing in many regions. I agree, that I would much rather see a mandatory city wide enforced recycle program. Until we have that in every community in the state, I would say that the deposit law goes a long way to addressing the issue.

]]> By: Kat http://thegldc.com/blog/2009/06/29/if-they-wont-recycle-make-em-pay/#comment-5745 Kat Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:55:28 +0000 http://thegldc.com/blog/?p=745#comment-5745 Forced deposit programs are an antique solution to a modern problem. They target less than 10% of the wastestream (beverage containers), cost more than curbside programs which collect all recyclable materials, and boast an artificially high redemption rate due to rampant fraud (buying products in a non-deposit state and redeeming them in a forced deposit state). Finally, the true carbon footprint of a forced deposit program is huge--fossil fuels burned by consumers returning beverage containers, fuel burned by large trucks picking up the containers at the grocery store or redemption center to deliver to processors make the system an antiquated, expensive and inefficient system. Forced deposit programs are an antique solution to a modern problem. They target less than 10% of the wastestream (beverage containers), cost more than curbside programs which collect all recyclable materials, and boast an artificially high redemption rate due to rampant fraud (buying products in a non-deposit state and redeeming them in a forced deposit state). Finally, the true carbon footprint of a forced deposit program is huge–fossil fuels burned by consumers returning beverage containers, fuel burned by large trucks picking up the containers at the grocery store or redemption center to deliver to processors make the system an antiquated, expensive and inefficient system.

]]> By: Robert Stockham http://thegldc.com/blog/2009/06/29/if-they-wont-recycle-make-em-pay/#comment-4005 Robert Stockham Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:08:51 +0000 http://thegldc.com/blog/?p=745#comment-4005 I agree. In Ohio, we seem to need a shove to get going. With a bottle bill, maybe the desperate will stop stealing the copper from abandoned homes and start picking up garbage! I agree. In Ohio, we seem to need a shove to get going. With a bottle bill, maybe the desperate will stop stealing the copper from abandoned homes and start picking up garbage!

]]> By: Pete http://thegldc.com/blog/2009/06/29/if-they-wont-recycle-make-em-pay/#comment-3986 Pete Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:13:00 +0000 http://thegldc.com/blog/?p=745#comment-3986 I live in Michigan for about 8 years and dealt with the deposits and it wasn't nearly as bad as people that don't deal with it think it is. (Did that just make sense?). While at times it was a sticky smelly mess, no one seemed to complain when they walked out with the money to put down on their next purchase. After moving back to Ohio I realized just how much gets thrown in the landfill just because it's "not worth anything to them". In Michigan you never saw cans in the trash, or along the roads, or in yards like I do here. I say if that's what it takes to get the masses to recycle, then lets do it! I live in Michigan for about 8 years and dealt with the deposits and it wasn’t nearly as bad as people that don’t deal with it think it is. (Did that just make sense?). While at times it was a sticky smelly mess, no one seemed to complain when they walked out with the money to put down on their next purchase. After moving back to Ohio I realized just how much gets thrown in the landfill just because it’s “not worth anything to them”. In Michigan you never saw cans in the trash, or along the roads, or in yards like I do here. I say if that’s what it takes to get the masses to recycle, then lets do it!

]]> By: jake http://thegldc.com/blog/2009/06/29/if-they-wont-recycle-make-em-pay/#comment-3972 jake Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:35:26 +0000 http://thegldc.com/blog/?p=745#comment-3972 I remember mom and dad getting SO mad when we didn't bring our Pepsi bottles back from the park with us! I remember mom and dad getting SO mad when we didn’t bring our Pepsi bottles back from the park with us!

]]> By: Robert Stockham http://thegldc.com/blog/2009/06/29/if-they-wont-recycle-make-em-pay/#comment-3951 Robert Stockham Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:11:46 +0000 http://thegldc.com/blog/?p=745#comment-3951 No, we do not have a bottle bill here. You are thinking of NY state! We do have an active community of scrap recyclers here, though. No, we do not have a bottle bill here. You are thinking of NY state! We do have an active community of scrap recyclers here, though.

]]> By: Jeffrey Broderick http://thegldc.com/blog/2009/06/29/if-they-wont-recycle-make-em-pay/#comment-3949 Jeffrey Broderick Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:02:32 +0000 http://thegldc.com/blog/?p=745#comment-3949 I was not aware Ohio did not have a deposite law, because you can still return cans for a refund, correct? I admittedly subscribe to the system of leaving them for the homeless to return. Recycling and supporting those less fortunate (sure, it has nothing to do with being lazy). I will now try to make a conscious effort to at least separate them, so that the trash pickers only have to grab that (biodegradable) bag and move on. Thanks Robert. Daddy wants a 8th in his Robert Stockham collection (not to mention the personal photos). I was not aware Ohio did not have a deposite law, because you can still return cans for a refund, correct? I admittedly subscribe to the system of leaving them for the homeless to return. Recycling and supporting those less fortunate (sure, it has nothing to do with being lazy). I will now try to make a conscious effort to at least separate them, so that the trash pickers only have to grab that (biodegradable) bag and move on. Thanks Robert.

Daddy wants a 8th in his Robert Stockham collection (not to mention the personal photos).

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